Better Knock Before You Enter

Its unfortunate this turned out this way. Its hard to form an opinion without being there. Its justified imho because he was told to leave first and tried to fight the person living there. Trajic for both families for sure. I wonder if the the first woman didnt call the police imediately or if they just couldnt respond that quick.    Unfortunately when seconds count the police are just minutes away..........

I don't disagree with what the resident did at all I would have done the same thing but why don't people lock their doors? It seems like most of the break ins around Fargo happen when the intruder finds an unlocked door and lets himself in. I always have mine locked and if you get into my house with all the doors being locked then you better watch out because you are asking for trouble.

Training I received was to shoot and kill any intruders, if said assailant was to flee shoot again and drag back inside.  Call 911 to report and shoot again while on the phone because you feel threatened.  Dead men cant testify against you.

I think you would have a hard time explaining yourself if they see blood outside your front door and then drag marks coming back into the house. In my training they said if the guy is leaving the house you better let him go. Not that I agree I believe he is getting what he deserves but if you shoot him in the back outside the house you are asking for trouble for yourself.

I just hope the story the man in the unlocked apt, is true.

I carry a gun because a police officer is too heavy to carry around

I would rather have a gun in my hand than a cop on the phone.  Hopefully he was totally in the right.

Why did he not shoot before the intruder engaged him in a fight?   More patience than I would have.    The unlocked door means nothing imho.   Hell, when I locked my keys in my house the locksmith(a kid right out of high school) picked my dead bolt and other lock in about 30 seconds max.   If you are not invited in a home and you break the threashold of the door you better be expecting trouble imho.

3XGutshot Said:
Why did he not shoot before the intruder engaged him in a fight?   More patience than I would have.    The unlocked door means nothing imho.   Hell, when I locked my keys in my house the locksmith(a kid right out of high school) picked my dead bolt and other lock in about 30 seconds max.   If you are not invited in a home and you break the threashold of the door you better be expecting trouble imho.

The unlocked door means everthing imho.  If the someone walks into an apartment and kills the tenant, then we put the blame game on the tenant for being stupid enough to leave his door unlocked.  Either way, LOCK your doors people.  It's about being proactive vs. reactive.

Locked, unlocked its all the same.  It's invasion of personal space.  If I feel threatened I have the right to protect myself or my family from that threat.  Does he have a weapon?  Hands, feet, accessible objects he may have been grabbing for are all weapons.  unprovoked attack is not your fault, ask anyone who has been car jacked.

Unlocked or not this guy was in the right if his story is correct.  Whenever I am working in the yard I am in and out of the house.  I don't lock the door.  It's the owners house if you are not invited stay the HELL out.  It seems pretty simple if you ask me.

I suspect it turned into a testosterone battle whereas the woman just screamed and he left, the second guy challenged (threatened) the intruder in some fashion and got into a verbal battle with him before getting the shotgun.

The only other explanation is that the lady in the first apt is one scary individual.  I suspect the police are also very curious about how the woman in the first apt was able to run him off.

While I will be one of the first to use deadly force if I feel my family is threatened, there is a duty to not kill unless necessary.  You can't just shoot someone for trespassing, it doesn't meet the required threshold for being threatened.

Poor, dumb 17 year old kid.  Witnesses said he appeared to be under the influence of something, according to the Forum.   Probably looking for a party.   Does Minnesota have a "Castle Law" like ND passed?  If so, the resident should not face any criminal or civil charges.  What a way to end a life.   Of course, the kid's dad is calling it "murder".   

Like a couple of others have noted - stay the hell out if you aren't invited in!

Allen:  Agreed.  You cannot shoot someone for tresspassing once you know that you are not in any danger.  On the other hand, this kid comes barging in (in the middle of the night) and refuses to leave and then starts to fight with the guy.  How could the guy be sure the kid didn't have a knife?  What did the kid say that sounded threatening?  The kid was high, but on what?  Was he just high and mellow, or was he on something that gave him retard strength?  There are a lot of factors that could have very easily made the guy fear for his safety.  Did he have other family members in the apartment?

And for all the guys who want to jump all over the fact that the apartment was unlocked:  Do you lock your doors at all times when you are at home (the story does not say that he was in bed asleep for the night - could have been up watching tv)?  If you say yes, then you are an absolute liar and we all know it.  I bet if I showed up at any one of your doors before you went to bed for the night, I would find 90% or higher of your doors unlocked - so please feel free to blame someone else for not having thier doors locked.  Besides that please show me anywhere in the law where it states you lose your right to defend yourself if your door was unlocked.  I'll be waiting patiently for a long time on that one.

Allen Said:
 You can't just shoot someone for trespassing, it doesn't meet the required threshold for being threatened.

Actually Allen in this case you can.  Not sure about MN but I do know that if it were in ND and this happened as stated, deadly force is justified.

The shooter gave the guy A LOT more of a chance to get out than I would have.